Vaše prosba k Panně Marii Svatohorské

↓   ↓

↓   ↓

Vaše emailová adresa

Opište prosí­m kód sem:

↓   ↓

24. června 2006

When I look out the window of my flat, I can see Prague and the whole of the Archbishopric

Cardinal, when we first met after I became parish priest in Svatá Hora, I told you that I would like to see Svatá Hora become a place of pilgrimage for the whole of Europe. Do you think that is slowly happening? Or was I aiming too high then?
Svatá Hora certainly occupies first place amongst all places of pilgrimage in the Czech Republic. That is something which you can easily recognise from all the coaches in the car park below Svatá Hora during the pilgrimage season. Also, when the Czech Republic and Slovakia were still one country, many pilgrims came from Slovakia to Svatá Hora. Today, Slovaks have a cross-border relationship to the place. There is also a very long tradition of pilgrimages from Bavaria. From this we can conclude that Svatá Hora does not only have significance for us in the Czech Republic, but also for the faithful in other countries. Of course today, in this era of mass tourism and easy mobility, one might say that it would be possible to increase yet further the number of international pilgrimages to Svatá Hora. That should be a task for Svatá Hora, indeed for all Czech places of pilgrimage, pilgrimages could be promoted in certain ways. I believe that pilgrimages as a spiritual undertaking are important for Christians in this day and age. We can also see that from the activities of young people, they enjoy going on pilgrimages. I also believe that older generations like to visit places of pilgrimage, even if they don't want to walk there! This has also something to do with the fact that human beings like a certain degree of novelty, and diversity of spiritual experience. I am however of the opinion that increasing the number of activities on offer in, and the number of invitations to places of pilgrimage, and stepping up promotion of places of pilgrimage, should all go hand in hand with thinking how such programmes could benefit these places more, so that it is not just a matter of one Mass after the other, blessings in the afternoon, and that's all. There should be some form of pastoral service, some further offering, which might attract more pilgrims and visitors. Places of pilgrimage should be greater spiritual centres than they currently are. Of course their fundamental basis is that pilgrims visit them, confess and attend Holy Mass, but a place of pilgrimage should offer much more.
Personally I do not see any problem with supply, but rather with demand. For example, some people arrive at Svatá Hora and basically don't want anything from the place, or don't know what they want, other people come to experience again what they have experienced before and are terribly disillusioned when it is different. These people want absolutely nothing but Confession and Holy Mass. For me the question remains how to create interest and desire for a more colourful programme. Then actually doing something would no longer be so difficult...
Both of us know very well that when certain pilgrimages with a specific theme take place, for example vocational or family pilgrimages, people come and are interested in the wider programme on offer. So it would be a good idea to reflect upon how to focus on some interesting theme, for example once a month or more. This does not mean that we graft other activities on to Mass, it is rather a matter of presenting a clearly defined theme. I believe that places of pilgrimage should not only function to fulfil the spiritual needs of their visitors, but should also have fora to help pilgrims shape their lives in a Christian way. This is perhaps something we can change. We must not stop having satisfied pilgrims' religious needs, it is necessary for us to lead people further. I believe that it is a very good thing that there is a museum at Svatá Hora. Although the museum is not so large, the museum is an important thing. Looking back and getting to know our past and our roots is after all very beneficial. But its nothing new of course. In the cloisters you have hundreds of years of Svatá Hora's history depicted in the paintings. These are important parts of our spiritual offering. As far as organising programmes is concerned, music attracts many people. It is good for places of pilgrimage to have a choir. It is also necessary to have interesting and exemplary religious services, likewise meetings and talks, so that these elements can also have a place along with the bishop and other more senior figures in developing the direction of guidance offered.
Yes, we have been trying to do something along these lines. We have introduced Lent Advent retreats. But the problem is that in 2000 the basilica wasn't big enough for all those wanting in, and today we get groups of barely 15 people. And I don't think that the quality had gotten worse... From this I surmise that the needs of the faithful, demand in the best sense of the word, is changing. Have you also seen a change in the past five years?
I am unable to say with certainty that in this short period of time significant changes have taken place, I can only say that talks, meetings and discussions are now more popular with people. I believe, and this could be an answer to your question, that when there is something new around, people can become very enthusiastic, but their enthusiasm can often be short-lived and soon wear off.It would perhaps be beneficial if parish priests co-operated more and co-ordinated their own inter-parish initiatives. When a spiritual retreat is arranged somewhere, priests should be sending people to attend. This is because people often won't decide by themselves, but need encouragement from their priest.
That is true, but now and again I remark that our parish priests might see places of pilgrimage like another parish, and it sometimes seems to me that they see the activities at a place of pilgrimage as impinging on their own office. I wanted to use the word competition, but that is too strong a word. It's just that every parish priest would in good faith want to have all these activities at home in his parish. And then there will be a conflict and people will not know what to do. How should we proceed then?
Co-ordination is of course important. But not everything can be co-ordinated, because there are so many diverse activities on a parish and diocesan level that it is impossible to come up with ideally harmonised plans. But the Diocese could help with planning so that it is clear, what is happening where. The Archbishopric also has a website, and it would be helpful if priests used them more and even publicised their own initiatives there. That would be a help with planning. However the problem which you mentioned is unfortunately true of some priests. They see their parish as their property and do not have room in their hearts for the wider Church. Such priests would see the problem you have outlined as one of competition. They think that that which they give to their parishioners has to be sufficient for them. But on the other hand there are priests, and I cannot say if they are many of them or not, who are happy when the faithful from parishes entrusted to them receive spiritual guidance from outside the parish. In short, we must have patience and educate both priests and the faithful that what is offered is merely an offer and in no way constitutes competition.
I still feel that a place of pilgrimage has an evangelical and charitable dimension. But I find it hard to define...
To define its charitable dimension is indeed difficult. I think we should understand it as follows: in places of pilgrimage, people are more prepared to make the personal sacrifice constituted by a donation. A pilgrimage should be an opportunity to help do good.
It is possible that we should understand this charitable element as giving people the opportunity to feel at home in a place of pilgrimage. The bane of modern society is undoubtedly homelessness, but I would say that many people who even have somewhere to live are actually homeless, because they are so isolated. They are victims of individualism, whether this be of their own doing or not. A place of pilgrimage should be open to all ...
I remember our pilgrimages for young people from the 1950s, when we used to walk to Svatá Hora. At about 8 in the evening we would meet at the Chuchle horseracing course. And then we walked all the way to Svatá Hora with just a short break in Voznice. We arrived there before midnight. At that time we would still fast from midnight, so we would eat there for the last time and then continue our pilgrimage. At the first Mass we attended in Svatá Hora, we took Holy Communion. Then each of us would eat our pilgrim's bread, lie down under the trees, have a short snooze, and then we would all talk. We would perhaps even pray together. And even after our night-time journey we would still be talking about matters of the spirit. Then, we would eat and find out who had brought whom, and a we became a real community. A community based on the spiritual and on the good things we had to eat! A moment of community, a feeling of solidarity, was very important for us in that time, as communism did not permit larger gatherings, and many people remember those gatherings to this day. When I look back on this all today, I see that we were not just seeing something new, nor was it just a spiritual experience: we were also experiencing a family and a home. I don't know if it would not be a good idea to create the opportunity for people from even the same parish to meet and talk whilst on pilgrimage, because they otherwise don't have so much time to do so.
We are a missionary Order. The modern mission has to be total, which means that it should shape the whole person, and not only his or her spiritual being. It is necessary to start with forming a human being, later comes cultural education, and the empathy of a priest for the contemporary problems of humanity, such as unemployment and so on. It seems to me that in this respect places of pilgrimage and community centres are closely related...
I think that is correct. Of course there is a difference here, because a place of pilgrimage has a wider catchment area, people come who don't actually live there, whereas only parishioners from one or more parishes visit community centres. Community centres are a contemporary phenomenon and allow a parish to offer its parishioners a place to pop in and have a cup of coffee and a chat. Community centres are also popular with people who don't attend church, but who can always meet in the centre. The community centre is open to everyone in the community and also satisfies some of the social needs in today's world. The community centres often run programmes for single mothers, the handicapped, and will often have a charitable component, and so on. I think that in today's day and age a good parish should function just like such a community centre, it should basically be accessible to everyone. We already have experience with this. The first community centre, which we built in Stodůlky, in Nové Butovice, completely vindicated our thinking on this and we now know that we should have built a bigger community centre, because the one we have is now barely big enough for our needs. Then came the Pastoral Centre in Dobříš, and now we are building a large community centre in Chodov.During the 50 years of communism, vast housing estates sprung up around Prague, in which sometimes more than 100,000 people live. The communists didn't build any churches here, nor even a central square. They erected prefabs, dormitories, boxes. They didn't even think about a community centre or any kind of social life for the residents. These housing estates lay bare clearly and manifestly communist thinking. It was not a matter of concentrating people in one place, quite the opposite, they wanted to isolate each and every person and for as few meetings as possible to take place. Thus a community centre, or a church, would have constituted an ideological diversion. We would now like to create some form of community centres in these areas. Thus we have started to build a big community centre in Chodov. As providence would have it, we have been able to buy the land needed from its lady owner who lives abroad. As this land was owned by a private individual, it was returned by the state to its owner after the fall of communism. I like to think of the building of this community centre as the "swan-song" of my office, because my time as Archbishop is coming to an end. For the past 75 years every archbishop has surrendered his office to the Pope, and I will follow suit next year. I admit that I would like to leave something behind and I will leave my diocese this community centre. In my old age, I have become a mendicant. I go from house to house, or rather from sponsor to sponsor, and I beg. I am convinced that we will build this centre. Providence has guided us from the beginning, and I believe that this will be the case until we complete the project. Let me just share a gem of a story with you. 15 years ago it was already being said that Chodov was in need of a church, and prayers were being offered to this end. One day a small group of people from Chodov parish, with the parish priest at their head, were walking around all the vacant sites looking for a place where a church could be built. Without knowing anything about the location, following the example of Mother Teresa they placed a medal of the Virgin Mary on the ground in the exact place where we are building today. Later we bought this land and the Mother Teresa Centre is being built there today. This will be the first church in the Czech Republic, and possibly in Europe, to be dedicated to Mother Teresa.
Yesterday I went to a charity shop and saw the Church of Saint Ludmilla. And I said to myself that Prague was also undergoing such a construction boom 100 years ago, with what has been called a "wreath of churches" built around the city: in Vinohrady, Smíchov, Karlín, Žižkov and Holešovice. How would you see this after 120 years? Was it providence? Are these churches where they should be?
It is clear that throughout the history of Prague churches have been built without thinking too far into the future. The Middle Ages were an era characterised by static thought. There was, with a few exceptions, no forward planning. As new communities developed around the perimeter of Prague, so new churches were built. The idea of a "wreath of churches" originated in the 20th century. After the removal of the Marian Column from the Old Town Square, Bishop Podlaha came up with the idea of a "wreath of churches" around Prague like the wreath of stars around the Virgin Mary's head. This project however was unrealised, on account of the Second World War. The only other church built was the Lhotecký Church, and the rectory with the Chapel of the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary in Strašnice. These churches were definitely built around the outskirts of Prague, even if these areas no longer constitute the outskirts of Prague today. The idea of building churches along the outskirts of Prague was a very good and providential one. Today we have to go further: as well as churches, we must construct entire networks, because in today's suburban areas hardly anything exists.
In their time, for example in the interwar years, churches were built which are now considered architectural treasures: the Church of the Heart of Our Lord in Vinohrady, Saint Wenceslas in Vršovice, Saint John Nepomuk in Košíře. Do you think that we are capable of foreseeing whether the churches being built today will also one day be viewed as such treasures? It is even necessary today for a church to have architectural value, or should it be an altogether more utilitarian construction?
Of course we want God's houses to be both practical and beautiful. Historically art has always been in the service of the Lord, and we want this to continue even today. However, I would be unable to judge satisfactorily whether today's churches will be seen as architectural jewels in the future, but we certainly would like them to be.
On the same theme: when we look at the churches built in the 19th and 20th centuries, they are extremely imposing buildings. The two modern churches built in the last 15 years are not exactly built in such imposing style. Was this by design, or has a virtue been made of necessity?
A little bit of both, definitely. Today - as was also the case in the past - churches are being built which correspond to current needs. Possibly in the future it will only be necessary to build an extension to this or that church, or maybe even a new church, but for now our starting point is that which is practically and economically possible. What is more, these days we are not so concerned with building imposing churches, rather we are struggling to find our place in the world as Christians. The architectural style we choose for our churches reflects this.
You talked about your swan song. It is certainly still too early to sum up your time in office, but I would nonetheless like to take a look at the past with you. If you had the opportunity to make all your plans and dreams come true, if there were no physical or financial limits, how would the diocese of Prague look today?
 I don't think in such terms, I don't imagine "what if". But I would put emphasis on the parishes developing more initiatives. Mainly, I would like us to create more believers, and to this end have pastoral assistants whom we could afford to pay. These assistants could then help much more in the parishes, especially in those where there is no priest. But this reform requires money and also a vocation, so it is maybe a "what if" scenario. I think there is a lot of people who would be prepared to study for this and whom we could support during their studies. And at a later date pay a salary to. At the same time it should be possible to develop further the idea of a spiritual centre, which is not dependent on a priest, but which could be run by two or three pastoral assistants, to whom we could pay a salary, and who would receive training. In this way we could share out the workload, so that evangelisation is not just down to the priest, this way he would have colleagues to help him. . If the money were there, it would be possible to extend our evangelisation and pre- evangelisation initiatives much further. But it is not just a matter of money, but rather of shaping the way people think. Shaping the way people think is an organic process, which means that is comes about slowly. It is a long way from being just a matter of educating people.
There is a third commodity of which we do not have enough - time. Do you not have the feeling that those priests who are ambitious in their ministries only skate along the surface of things, because the rhythm of contemporary life is so crazy, and so consuming. The temptation to devote oneself to the superficial - somewhere a important error is being made...
Certainly. The speed of life today does tend to carry all before it, but I have to take the side of the priests. They are exhausted, because they know how much needs to be done, and they are under very great pressure from these necessities. If it were possible to involve more people, create a system of working in teams, then priests would not be completely submerged by everything they have to achieve.
What is more, a priest's pastoral role can sometimes mean quite dull work. Were I to compare a priest's pastoral role to a language course, then we priests would continually be giving the course for beginners. It seems to me that we are failing those of our flock who go beyond this beginner's level, at which point they no longer have anyone to take care of their needs. So perhaps we need a course for the more demanding and advanced individuals...
Obviously we have to have a systematic approach in discharging our pastoral duties. Not only with beginners and children, but also with those who have more advanced needs. Guidance should be more evolved even when dispensing the sacraments, when baptising children and adults, and during preparations for confirmation. For those with more advanced needs there exists the further possibility of studying theology. Not only as a means of preparing for work in the Church, but simply as a way of educating and developing oneself. Pastoral care is still not quite all it should be, but we are limited by the options open to us.
We are sitting here in your flat. You have a lovely view of Prague from here. It is said that a priest is responsible for all his parishioners, and not only those who come to church. As bishop of a diocese of more than 2 million souls, you have an enormous responsibility. How do you feel when you look out the window?
If ever I thought that I and I alone bore this responsibility, that would be truly terrible. Insofar as I am conscious of this in my role as Bishop, I understand it like St Paul, who said: I do all I can, but God dispenses grace, and that is for me a comfort and I am at peace. On the other hand there exists the danger that I could let myself be lulled into a sense of impotence, raise my hands to heaven and say: I give up, there is nothing more I can do, this is your problem, Lord. That would not be acceptable either. I must feel responsibility, a burden and a certain pain, but on the other hand, I must not stop feeling hope and having confidence in God's power. I rely on these and try to see the hand of God in everything. Sometimes we have a tendency to generalise about certain negative phenomena and to say that everything is bad. I personally try to distinguish between things and to see the good too, as is written in the Holy Scriptures: "See, I am doing a new thing! Now it springs up; do you not perceive it?" So I try to see all that is new, to see the positive things created by God and these things make me happy. So when I look from the window, often in the mornings or in the evenings I will bless this city and my diocese.
Every bishop has a motto. Yours is "Let everyone unite". How do you view this motto? Did you get it because you wanted to give yourself a defining characteristic, or is it actually your life's motto? Do you see it as an aim of yours? How have you worked towards it during your period of office?
I chose this motto on the basis of Jesus's legacy to us. If Jesus was praying for unity in the last moments of his life, then I can only understand that this was perhaps the most important thing he had on his mind. We can also see how much difficulty and pain a lack of unity causes the Church, or other religions. We would be writing very different history today if we Christians had maintained our unity. These ideas led me to make this motto my " trademark" . How do we create unity? Unity is a big word, but it must be created from the ground up. It is very important to me indeed. Perhaps it seems to people that I am forever repeating myself when I speak of reciprocal love and about Jesus being in our midst, but there is simply no other path. It is He who unites us. I must live and speak in this spirit and sense, I feel this to be my duty. The results I leave to Our Lord.
This year the whole world is celebrating the 250th anniversary of the birth of the composer Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. We know that Mozart loved coming to Prague and that the once said "My Praguers will understand me." Let me just paraphrase this statement - do you think that your Praguers understand you?
I'm not the subject of any popularity polls, so I can't give you statistics. I believe that I cannot make such an assertion as straightforwardly as Mozart did, because embracing music is different from embracing the Gospel and the harmony of the Gospel's message. They are two completely different things and it's difficult to compare them. However I do think that a good number of people understand what I am talking about and that is important to me. I often see this when I am talking to my congregation after Mass. I of course also understand that that it is important to distinguish between those who are openly enthusiastic and supportive and those who concur with what I say in their hearts, but give no outward sign of this. There is obviously also a good number of people to whom my aims and my style do not appeal. Other things appeal to these individuals. That is just the way things work in the Church.
On the cross Lord Jesus was at his most exalted but also at his most isolated. Similarly, the more exalted a person is, the more isolated he or she is. Do you feel alone here? And if you do, how do you deal with it?
But this is something we can look at from another perspective. When a person is exalted, he is near to God. Christ was nearest to God the Father when he was on the cross, even though he cried out: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?", because he knew that he was fulfilling God's will through his crucifixion. But here I of course do not wish to cite Jesus's cry of "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" in an inappropriate context. It is true that in the middle of the countryside a priest is in a different situation, he is near to his flock and he is surrounded by the family that is his parish. In this respect, that priest's office is more gratifying that that of a bishop, who actually doesn't have that daily contact with his "family." This can force a person to take refuge in the Lord, who let us not forget, is also the Lord of the vine. And I must admit that I have some difficulties coping with this type of isolation, with this life that requires me to deal with many different tasks and duties and removes me from the everyday spiritual life of the people.
That much is obvious, if I am being honest with you. When you are with people, especially amongst a smaller group, then you are in your element...
That is true, I know.
Every priest and bishop is also a pastor, and thus should be ready to go to the ends of the earth for a lost sheep, but is also a sort of manager, or boss, who must administer and make decisions. That is perhaps a strain and a headache. How do you deal with it?
I think I answered this question with my previous answer. The problem you've spoken about is perhaps over-simplified, because every bishop and priest has a number of advisers. The fact that I have two suffragans and the Bishop's Council means that I can transfer some of the decision-making to my colleagues. These days even an Archbishop cannot impose his own decisions from above.
I am rather thinking of the internal conflict within an individual, whose hand is used to bless but sometimes must also condemn. That is perhaps a source of pain...
This is something that certainly pains me sometimes, but it is perhaps obvious that mercy must be tempered by justice. Uniting these two is not always simple. Embarking on a conflict is a serious matter. And I am someone who does not like conflict, I prefer to smile in the face of conflict. But sometimes conflict is unavoidable.¨

Cardinal Miloslav Vlk in conversation with Father Stanislav Přibyl, CSsR

You may make a donation towards the construction of the Mother Teresa Community Centre by cheque or banker's order to the following account: Nadačního fondu kardinála Miloslava Vlka, 369369369/0800, IBAN: CZ36 0800 0000 0003 6936 9369, SWIFT CODE: GIBA CZ PX. If you would like more information on the project, please contact Monsignor Vladimír Málek on 00 420 602 379 861.
Your donation towards the construction of the Mother Teresa Community Centre is tax-deductible in the amount of the donation. Upon request we will gladly provide you with confirmation of your donation.

Jazyková verze

• Česky
• Deutsch
• English
• Polski
• En español
• Française
• Italiano
• Rusky

Chcete dostávat články a novinky emailem?

Vyhledávání­

Odkazy

Fotogalerie

• Velikonoční vigilie 2012
• Roráty s P. S. Přibylem, CSsR
• Benefiční koncert G. Demeterové a J. Tůmy
• Věčné sliby - David Horáček
• Noc kostelů 2011

Aktuality

• Information
• Guided Tour with a Concert
• I have expected... Do I have to run away?
• New exhibition in the Museum of Pilgrimage
• SOS Organ